Greatest Hits Immature. Released February 27, 2001. Greatest Hits Tracklist. Never Lie (Radio Version) Lyrics. We Got It (Radio Mix) Lyrics. This is the discography of R&B & Soul trio, IMx. 1 Studio albums. 1.1 Compilations. 2 Singles; 3 References. Studio albums[edit]. Year, Album, Chart positions. Create a book Download as PDF Printable version. Picktorrent: greatest hits - Free Search and Download Torrents at search engine. Download Music, TV Shows, Movies, Anime, Software and more. View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the 2001 CD release of Greatest Hits on Discogs.
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(Redirected from Immature (band))
Background information | |
---|---|
Also known as | IMx |
Origin | Los Angeles, California, U.S. |
Genres | R&B |
Years active | 1990–2002, 2009–present |
Labels | Virgin, MCA, TUG, New Line |
Associated acts | B2K, TG4, Mila J |
Website | http://immatureofficial.com/ |
Members | Marques 'Batman' Houston Jerome 'Romeo' Jones Kelton 'LDB' Kessee |
Past members | Don 'Half Pint' Santos |
Marques Houston, lead singer of the band Immature/IMx
Immature (also known as IMx) is an AmericanR&B boy band, managed by record producerChris Stokes. Its members include Marques 'Batman' Houston (born August 4, 1981), Jerome 'Romeo' Jones (born October 25, 1981), and Kelton 'LDB' Kessee (born January 2, 1981), all natives of Los Angeles, California, where the group was formed. The group released four albums under the Immature moniker including On Our Worst Behavior in 1992 which included former member Don 'Half Pint' Santos, later replaced by Kessee, Playtyme Is Over in 1994, then We Got It in 1995 and finally in 1997 released the album, The Journey.
In 1999, the group changed its name to IMx, marking ten years of being a group and released two studio albums Introducing IMx and IMx, and then released a Greatest Hits album in 2001.[1] The group also branched out into film (such as House Party 3 & House Party 4: Down to the Last Minute) and television (such as A Different World, Sister, Sister, Family Matters and All That) before disbanding in 2002. In 2010, Houston announced on 106 & Park that the group were planning to record another group album together for 2011. A new album is currently in the works titled 'Forever Immature'. It was scheduled to be released in Summer 2013, along with a tour, however, a release has yet to be given for the project. On November 6, 2013, Immature performed their first show since reuniting at Club Nokia in Los Angeles, CA with Next and Dru Hill.
- 1Biography
- 2Music career
- 2.1Immature
Biography[edit]
Immature was formed in Los Angeles, California in 1990 by Marques 'Batman' Houston, Jerome 'Romeo' Jones and Don 'Half-Pint' Santos. Kelton 'LDB' Kessee (the group's drummer) joined the group in 1994 replacing Santos due to his parents pulling him from the group in 1994 after they starred together in House Party 3. In 1999 the group would change their name to IMx, feeling Immature no longer reflected the band.
After IMx[edit]
In 2002, the group disbanded. Houston and Jones (under the name Young Rome) began solo careers, while Kessee continued his work as a record producer. Houston became the first former member to release a solo album, MH, in 2003. Jones followed suit with the release of his debut solo album in 2004, entitled Food for Thought. Houston later released five additional albums: Naked (2005), Veteran (2007), Mr. Houston (2009), Mattress Music (2010) and Famous (2013).
Houston and Jones have also pursued acting careers, with both starring in the dance film, You Got Served (2004). Houston co-starred on Fat Albert (2004) and starred in UPN's comedy Cuts. He also starred in the horror film Somebody Help Me. He appeared as Roger on the show Sister, Sister (1994–1998). Santos recently got married
Music career[edit]
Immature[edit]
On Our Worst Behavior[edit]
In 1992, Immature released their debut album, On Our Worst Behavior, on September 22. The album featured singles 'Da Munchies', 'I Wanna Know U That Way' and 'Tear It Up (On Our Worst Behavior)' (which also appeared on the soundtrack for the animated film Bébé's Kids, in which Houston provided his voice for the character Khalil).
Although the album failed to make it onto any of Billboard's charts, their song 'Tear It Up (On Our Worst Behavior)' managed to make it onto Billboard's Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs, peaking at number 39.[2]
Playtyme Is Over[edit]
Immature released their second album, Playtyme Is Over, on August 2, 1994. The album featured singles 'Never Lie', 'Constantly' and 'I Don't Mind'.
https://camheavy.weebly.com/multimedia-video-controller-driver-windows-xp-sony.html. In the United States, Playtyme Is Over peaked at number 88 on the Billboard200[3] and peaked at number 26 on Billboard's Top R&B/Hip-Hop Albums.[4]
We Got It[edit]
In 1995, Immature released their third album, We Got It. The album featured singles 'We Got It', 'Lover's Groove' and 'Please Don't Go'.
In the United States, We Got It peaked at number 76 on the Billboard 200[5] and peaked at number 14 on Billboard's Top R&B/Hip-Hop Albums.[4] Windows 7 home premium 32 bit iso download mydigitallife.
The Journey[edit]
In 1997, Immature released their fourth album, which was their last under the name Immature, The Journey. The album featured singles 'I'm Not a Fool', 'Give Up The Ghost' (featuring Bizzy Bone) and 'Extra, Extra' (written by and featuring Keith Sweat).
In the United States, The Journey peaked at number 92 on the Billboard 200[6] and peaked at number 20 on Billboard's Top R&B/Hip-Hop Albums.[4]
Introducing IMx[edit]
In 1999, Immature changed their name to IMx and released their fifth album, Introducing IMx. The album featured singles 'Stay the Night', 'Keep It On the Low' and 'In & Out of Love'.
In the United States, Introducing IMx peaked at number 101 on the Billboard 200[7] and peaked at number 31 on Billboard's Top R&B/Hip-Hop Albums.[8]
IMx[edit]
In 2001, IMx released their sixth album, IMx on August 21. The album featured singles 'First Time', 'Beautiful (You Are)', 'Clap Your Hands Pt. 1' and 'Ain't No Need' (which also appeared on the soundtrack for the film The Adventures of Pluto Nash).
In the United States, IMx peaked at number 126 on the Billboard 200[9] and peaked at number 26 on Billboard's Top R&B/Hip-Hop Albums.[10]
Remember[edit]
(2015 EP Album)
In early 2015, the band reunited to release a comeback EP album titled, 'Remember' and changed their name back to their original band name, 'Immature'. The album features mature-sounding remakes of their classic hits 'Never Lie' and 'Please Don't Go' along with 6 newly released songs such as 'Let Me Find Out', 'Oh My' and 'Best Sex'. The EP was released exclusively on Complex.com and BET.com, While the album is just an 'appetizer' for the fans, they expressed they are working on their 7th studio album titled 'Forever'. and also mentioned they are in works of producing a biopic chronicling their career over the years, with the hopes of it being produced thru VH1 or Lifetime.[11][12]
Other works[edit]
IMx released their Greatest Hits album on February 27, 2001. The album featured all of the popular singles that Immature/IMx had released in the past 9 years and included several remixes of the original versions and songs that they had made guest appearances on (such as R&B singer Monteco's song 'Is It Me?').
The group's song 'Keep it on the Low' is used as the theme song for the film House Party 4: Down to the Last Minute which they also are the stars of.
Immature collaborated with comedy actor Kel Mitchell in the hit song 'Watch Me Do My Thing', which was featured on the soundtrack of the Nickelodeon sketch comedy, All That.
Band members[edit]
- Marques 'Batman' Houston – lead vocals
- Kelton 'LDB' Kessee – background vocals, drummer
- Jerome 'Romeo' Jones – main rapper, background vocals
- Don 'Half Pint' Santos – background vocals, rapper
Discography[edit]
- On Our Worst Behavior (1992)
- Playtyme Is Over (1994)
- We Got It (1995)
- The Journey (1997)
- Introducing IMx (1999)
- IMx (2001)
- Remember (2015)
References[edit]
- ^Bush, John. 'Artist Biography by John Bush'. AllMusic. Retrieved 21 July 2017.
- ^'Immature – Chart history | Billboard'. www.billboard.com. Archived from the original on 2017-01-23. Retrieved 2017-01-23.
- ^'Immature – Chart history | Billboard'. www.billboard.com. Archived from the original on 2017-01-23. Retrieved 2017-01-23.
- ^ abc'Immature – Chart history | Billboard'. www.billboard.com. Archived from the original on 2017-01-23. Retrieved 2017-01-23.
- ^'The Billboard 200: We Got It'. Retrieved 2008-02-05.[dead link]Billboard.com
- ^'The Billboard 200: The Journey'. Archived from the original on September 5, 2014. Retrieved 2008-02-05.Billboard.com
- ^'The Billboard 200: Introducing IMx'. Archived from the original on May 3, 2013. Retrieved 2008-02-05.Billboard.com
- ^'Top R&B/Hip-Hop Albums: Introducing IMx'. Retrieved 2008-02-05.[dead link] Billboard.com
- ^'The Billboard 200: IMx'. Archived from the original on August 9, 2014. Retrieved 2008-02-05.Billboard.com
- ^'Top R&B/Hip-Hop Albums: IMx'. Retrieved 2008-02-05.[dead link] Billboard.com
- ^'Just In Time For Valentine's Day, Immature Drops the 'Remember' Compilation'. Complex. Retrieved 2017-07-10.
- ^'Immature Drops Valentines Day EP, Remember'. BET.com. Retrieved 2017-07-10.
Retrieved from 'https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=IMx&oldid=889545893'
the file swapping network bittorrent has lost most, if not all, of its hub connections. the quick change in status is believed to be directly correlated with the mpaa threats of legal action if the network continued to operate. although the change doesn’t shut down bittorrent, it does signify that fileswapping sites operating in plain sight are concerned.a message was posted on one of bittorrent’s most popular hubs, suprnova.org read “we do not know if suprnova is going to return, but it is certainly not going to be hosting any more torrent links. we are very sorry for this, but there was no other way, we have tried everything.” the site was unavailable monday afternoon. the technologies creator, bram cohen, isn’t surprised by the turn of events, indicating that it was created to support underground file swapping.
read more on this topic from cnet.com.
christopher's opinion
one by one, they are disappearing. the mpaa not only has a lot of money and lawyers on the side, but more importantly, the law. file swapping, as we grew to love it, is gone.
one by one, they are disappearing. the mpaa not only has a lot of money and lawyers on the side, but more importantly, the law. file swapping, as we grew to love it, is gone.
yes, i know you will continue to fight. and there will be other sites that pop up before they are shut down, but it will never be the same that it once was. we have gone from napster, to kazaa, to bittorrent to i don’t know, but with each iteration, the functionality and selection dropped off. next you’ll be lucky if you can download photos.
the mpaa has been successful, and with that, they won’t stop. file swapping will become what it was before the internet, a group of friends sharing discs. i guess this means we might actually have to buy our videos and music.
robgeek note: i'll have to respectfully disagree with that opinion – not about whether people do or don't buy their videos and music, but about file sharing in general. i believe that file sharing will continue but will become more and more decentralized. there are other file sharing methods that are still working today. irc, winmx, and surely others that i'm less familiar with. bittorrent has not died, but it may have died as we know it.
user comments 156 comment(s)
file swapping may be dead…(12:09pm est tue dec 21 2004) but wife swapping is more popular than ever. – by poly-g |
hey, asshatter, (12:12pm est tue dec 21 2004) don't you mean sharing? – by edonkey |
with small and portable hard drives(12:12pm est tue dec 21 2004) i can take my little ipod and share 30 gig of songs/movies/programs. sure, it's not an over-the-net sort of sharing, but with portable hard drives getting gigantic, and the costs driving lower hand carrying files will start to make a come-back. and let's not forget the good ol' news servers that have a gazillion attachments to them. they may be a pain, but they are a really fast way to download. – by hodar |
bye bye cable/dsl(12:19pm est tue dec 21 2004) time to disconnect high speed cable/dsl accounts. i think high speed cables will take a big hit in profit the coming year – by joe |
it will continue to get worse(12:37pm est tue dec 21 2004) the nazi legal regime, aka the riaa will continue its efforts until it is illegal to hand another person your i pod headphones to listen to on of your songs without buying a license. these are sad times. oh, and dont think you will be sharing songs with your i pod much longer. a lot of the file formats available from legal pay music download sites are either non transferrable or have a transfer limit on them. windows longhorn will only make this reality worse. – by farking_bastage |
ok(12:38pm est tue dec 21 2004) next step we all go stand alone winmx edonkey. it works and i will bet there user base has just doubled. i live in canada and soon we will be the only ones sharing anything. in canada we already pay a tax on all recordable media that is to go to the artist….hmmm a novel idea also our courts don’t presume we are all criminals there are many legal files shared over these networks. its a shame that people who control the money control the people that make the laws. just seems wrong. what ever happened to a government of the people for the people… i don’t remember corporation or industry association in that phrase. so why do they have more rights than you? it’s obvious they have more money and can make massive campaign donations to their minion. they can stifle your voice with there lobbyists. the can afford the adds on tv to persuade the weak minded. they have large pr companies working for them, they carefully contrive a view of reality which is displayed for all to see on the big three networks. it eventually pervades our culture and your society is changed forever. – by spore |
who let the canadian in here??(12:46pm est tue dec 21 2004) hahaha – by noobisnoob |
i'll take canada over the new ussr anyday(12:48pm est tue dec 21 2004) they may only have a diesel submarine that breaks down in the north atlantic, but the fishing is good and not nearly as corrputed. – by farking_bastage |
um, it was illegal….(12:51pm est tue dec 21 2004) those sites blatantly had links to illegal copyright infringing material…. they broke the law, they got shut down… some of you have stretched the term “fair use” to it's limits. putting a song on a p2p for everyone to download is not “fair use”…. i know it is a hard concept to grasp, businesses trying to protect their property and all…. don't like, don't listen to it, buy it. that simple. – by samueul |
shhh(12:51pm est tue dec 21 2004) nothing happens on irc dont look there no reason too. ok bye. – by -nothing on irc |
hey you, fathead!(12:56pm est tue dec 21 2004) stealing is not a right. – by music pirate |
it is illegal but……(1:03pm est tue dec 21 2004) the means do not justify the ends. riaa wants to stop piracy…ok. every us citizen being forced to give them the keys to our hard drives ( it will happen eventually if this keeps up) is entirely different. it will happen, i can assure you, sooner or later. hell even the new operating systems in development will have the capability to transmit data about every media file on your drive. i apologize for the conspiracy theory, but theyre taking it entirely too far. with every legal “victory”, no matter how ill-gotten, they come closer to having the ability to compromise our personal data in ways stalin only dreamed of. – by farking_bastage |
say it aint so(1:03pm est tue dec 21 2004) noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo it's napster all over again :( – by sad |
a few greedy corporates, individuals….(1:04pm est tue dec 21 2004) gobbling up more than they can swallow… – by o/o |
don't be naive…(1:04pm est tue dec 21 2004) …it's never going to stop! napster brought about a revolution, a new era. napster is now gone but look at the new, improved sharing software that is being used. it's not going to stop, it'll be better. in the “old” days riaa and mpaa where only battling against napster. now it's kazaa, winmx, edonkey, bittorrent… tomorrow who knows how many more clients will they have to battle against. like spore said, it's wrong that people with money have more than just a say in law-making, but, if i may add, it's equally wrong for us to give up! we deserve better! we will not be told what to buy! we will not be told what to like! we will not be told that it's “stealing” just because there is a law against it! i refuse to put up with people who abide to laws which exist just because rich men want to become richer. i refuse to put up with laws that exist just because people like eric do not have the will to try and make this world a better and fair place! what's wrong with us people?? where is the respect gone? where is the fair-play? whatever happened to us? why are we in a war? why do we kill? why do we strive to get richer? why do we chose not to look? – by invisiblesurfer |
canada rocks(1:04pm est tue dec 21 2004) i've been there many times. great people, beautiful country. taxes are through the roof, and as an american it's strange to have such a limited product selection in the grocery store…. but it's a great place. – by music pirate |
not true(1:05pm est tue dec 21 2004) and if you have any knowledge of the net, u wouldn't despair as irc is damn handy! – by xer0 |
re samueul(1:07pm est tue dec 21 2004) “they can afford the adds on tv to persuade the weak minded.” you fall under this catagory. “some of you have stretched the term “fair use” to it's limits. putting a song on a p2p for everyone to download is not “fair use””…. yes it is neener neener neener. ask how many own scrathed of fucked up cds…they bought the music.regardless of the media its on. they have the right to the music. besides who cares what you think…answer you and you alone. – by barf |
re by samueul(1:14pm est tue dec 21 2004) >>putting a song on a p2p for everyone to download is not “fair use”…. didn't napster at one time try to make it that you had to have a physical cd in order to download the song. but the riaa even nixed this idea didn't they? – by truth4u |
better locations(1:28pm est tue dec 21 2004) somebody needs to set these servers up in island countries that careless about these ridiculous laws….estonia, dominica, i don't care. they all look good when bt links are posted and working – by chips ahoy |
help!(1:30pm est tue dec 21 2004) freeware no ads works well supports gnutella 1+2, e-donkey/mule and torrents. – by nice |
re: samueul(1:30pm est tue dec 21 2004) you sound dorky in your comment. your a dork. – by wd |
btt or cable tv(1:36pm est tue dec 21 2004) interesting comment about cable tv. i've been very disappointed with the quality of the feed that i receive. i suppose i should call them again to see if they can improve it. anyway, i'd come to find that i could get far, far better quality viewing of my favored shows from btt. isn't that amusing! ironically, i get my broadband from a cable tv provider. hmmm. – by e… |
it's a good thing(1:46pm est tue dec 21 2004) new software for sharing will only get better and better till the riaa just has to break even more laws to catch people, which will just put them in more trouble after their done. – by pirate |
ianal…(1:49pm est tue dec 21 2004) but “copyright infringement” is not “stealing”. the one (copyright infringement) is a civil matter while the other (theft) comes under the penal code. let's be clear on this. – by nitpicker |
bit.torrent the new napster(1:56pm est tue dec 21 2004) the day bit.torrent becomes like napster e.g crap and charging people is a very sad sad day in history, surely the fire and brimstone is on its way, hail satan and the horse men of the apocalypse – by mr chris |
thank you riaa(1:58pm est tue dec 21 2004) file sharing was weak and pitiful back when they shut down napster, like a hydra it grew new heads within 3 months. each time they shut one down a better one comes up, dont hate the riaa there stimulating file sharing growth o_o – by me of course |
mpaa and riaa obsolete(2:00pm est tue dec 21 2004) the mpaa is trying to defend the copyright for high-budget, low-quality films that people are still stupid enough to pay money for. the riaa is trying to defend all of the money they've ripped off from musicians for the past 20 years. they'll be dead before you know it. – by charlie strayhorn |
re wd, truth4u, barf(2:04pm est tue dec 21 2004) weak minded? yeah, right, look the law may not be great, but these companies produce the material, and the artists sign the contracts. if you/we want the material, you/we pay for it. don't like it, don't pay, but your twisted ethics does not offset the illegality of your actions by downloading the copyrighted material, it's that simple. truth4u, napster's idea had no backing to prove that he/they could actually implement and secure that system, and everyone including the riaa knew it, proved it. wd – nice, so, why does your opinion carry any weight? – by samueul |
re: invisiblesurfer(2:05pm est tue dec 21 2004) you know there are a lot of good decaffeinated coffee brands on the market right now. you might want to switch to one. – by anonymous coward |
it's only begun(2:17pm est tue dec 21 2004) file sharing in general is a heavily researched concept and p2p is not going anywhere. nothing short of monitoring every host on the internet could effectly stop illegal p2p sharing. try limewire and gnutella, totaly peer driven, no centralization, completely legal and never going away. who let the idiot christopher write such a dumb opinion on file sharing? its incredably naive. – by mxhalo |
mpaa and riaa eats my edonkey dick(2:20pm est tue dec 21 2004) “i guess this means we might actually have to buy our videos and music.” there's no way in hell i'm paying for music or videos, ever. it's not because i don't have the money or they desire either, but because i want to steal from the riaa and mpaa. they're evil and deserve no copyright protection. – by the donkey |
piracy(2:29pm est tue dec 21 2004) it is the same 5h1t, mpaa/riaa shut it down … three weeks later we're downloading from new clients … hey “chips ahoy” not need for an island … look at the south … mexican government have almost no laws for sharing digital material … – by mexican |
culture(2:32pm est tue dec 21 2004) culture used to belong to the people, it wasn't a commotity to be bought. we shall take culture back from the greedy capitalist pigs. even if all file sharing is completly shut down, the riaa and mpaa will not see a cent of my money. we must work to save file sharing and culture. this is a jihad! – by jz |
i'll keep on swapping …(2:33pm est tue dec 21 2004) mpaa/riaa blah blah blah … here's a funny thing to think about. everytime they shut down a technology, a better, faster and safer technology evolves … this isn't going to result in a shut down, it's going to result in better technology …. sweet! – by nbpirate |
what about non-american stuff?(2:33pm est tue dec 21 2004) my guess is all the above would pertain only to american music/movies. rest of the world…where riaa is not responsible for…is pretty safe for now.and they would continue to fuel bittorrent. do u think they will be affected? my guess is not. im think indian, chinese,japanese…etc etc. – by sam |
riaa/mpaa arseholes(2:41pm est tue dec 21 2004) bittorrent down… rename bittorrent to bitshare and bam, its up and running for a few months until it has to change its name again – by nugget |
buying cd's(2:44pm est tue dec 21 2004) i have no objection to buying cd's…. if they would make something worthwhile buying. last cd i bought was “the best of the who”… never opened it, i just use mp3's i already have… i bought it because it is an awesome cd and i support them – by nugget |
oh well(2:50pm est tue dec 21 2004) i will not buy movies and music anymore. i used to download it and buy cd when i have enuff money. good thing i didnt upgrade my internet speed at higher speed. so i hope everyone drop down to lower speed as needed or disconnect. i think isp might have a fist at mpaa and riaa. i dunno. oh well. – by stranger |
trading copyright material is evil(2:52pm est tue dec 21 2004) remember kids, when you trade music files online, you trade with hitler! – by grapesofwrathofkhan |
crime? thats crap(2:55pm est tue dec 21 2004) a woman commits a crime by running over her husband, killing him, with her mercedes, does that conclude auto's should be outlawed now because people can perform illegal activities with them — no. bt's fall into this analogy- although, used for criminal activity they are also used for legitimate actions. – by fu |
re samueul's comment to wd(2:55pm est tue dec 21 2004) “wd – nice, so, why does your opinion carry any weight?” answer… because he's not a dork and you are sammieboy…and yer prolly also a govt stooge by the sounds of it anyway lol – by wolfblade…canada |
the evil empire of the riaa/mpaa….(3:01pm est tue dec 21 2004) are out for one thing…your money!! do you honestly believe that these corporate fatcats are looking out for the artists? the riaa (who, by the way, is owned by mostly foreign interests!) have drummed up statistics to their liking and are using it to take away our rights to use the media that we pay our hard earned money for. the induce act was just a stepping stone soon these clowns will make having tivo and mp3 players illegal. and their political chimp, sen. orin hatch will help them, just like a good monkeyboy. don't give in guys, hang in there we'll just have to come up with new ideas and technologies. they may be the corporate fat cats, but there are enough of the stainless steel rats out there to keep them three steps behind. keep on rockin' folks! – by slippery jim digriz |
it will never stop(3:02pm est tue dec 21 2004) never – by never |
down with mpaa(3:03pm est tue dec 21 2004) well if they can have sequel in the movie industry, we have also ours. suprnova2 coming!! long live bit torrent!! he he ho ho mpaa gotto go – by f&*#mp@@ |
before the internet?(3:07pm est tue dec 21 2004) that should really be “before the world wide web”. i (and many others) were using the internet in the late 80's. file sharing was floppy disks, dial-up bbs's, “secret” ftp sites…. there were no songs or movies…. the adult content was limited to jpeg's in some ways it was more fun that it is today. (except for the download speed, that always just stunk). anyway, the point is…. file sharing isn't going away. it will just change. (tip of the hat to nate & bud for all those free accounts from weeg) – by music pirate |
it works like this…(3:18pm est tue dec 21 2004) you write a song. a group records it. every time someone buys the cd, you get paid. you buy groceries. life is good. then someone rips the cd. sales of the cd drop off. you don't get paid. your kids go hungry. life is not so good. so you quit the music business altogether and get a 'real' job. steady income. life is good again. and the rest of us loose, because we will never hear any more songs your god-given talents might have produced. that's why we have copyright laws. end of story. – by rational thinker |
mp3s still suck(3:19pm est tue dec 21 2004) why did the riaa never make the crappy sound-quality of mp3's an issue? they should have run with that, but i guess it's too late now. thanks for not mentioning the best-kept p2p secret out there… *******k. if the y find me there i'm so being sued. – by evilroo |
hmm….(3:21pm est tue dec 21 2004) i didn't realize this was a conversation on the ethics of file sharing…. lets keep on topic. – by barneyxp |
re rational thinker(3:27pm est tue dec 21 2004) when i see the lifestyles of the artists u are talking about not too many of them seem to be starving …the only thing that ever cuts their cash way down is their “habits” – by wolfblade |
i noticed one thing(3:30pm est tue dec 21 2004) we all became hippies going against the boring stuck up companies/government. i guess i don't mind it since this movement might actually change things. power to the people man!!!!! – by caliber fx |
middle manager(3:35pm est tue dec 21 2004) i didn't realize this was a forum that uses middle-mgmt business terms like 'on topic' and 'trending down' – by evilroo |
re: samueul's comment to wd(3:41pm est tue dec 21 2004) “wd – nice, so, why does your opinion carry any weight?” answer… because he's not a dork and you are sammieboy…and yer prolly also a govt stooge by the sounds of it anyway lol – by wolfblade…canada wolfblade? are you kidding me? that's got to be absolutely the most retarded nickname i've seen all day. go back to your game of d&d and leave this conversation to the grown folk kiddo. anyways… whenever this subject crops up, i always see the same rehashed, half thought out justifications for theft. none of you is a robin hood, revolutionary, rebel rouser or visionary. you want something for nothing and damn the consequences, end of story. – by samueul |
re rational thinker(3:44pm est tue dec 21 2004) you write a song. you record at your home studio. everytime someone downloads one of your songs you get heard. you work in the real world like everyone else. you have no pressures from label to 'modify' your song content. you buy groceries. life is good. then someone rips of your cd. more people hear it and if it is good, they'll share it with their friends. before you know it, you can start playing small gigs where people may want to pay to see your talent. your kids are in good health, because you spend more time with them. life is good. all of sudden, your job gets outsourced, worse yet, insourced. its christmas time, and its cold outside. you start busking, but everyone is indoors listening to their ipods. they can't hear your screams. but the label execs can. they smile. you die. damnit! what happened to this story. i almost had a point there! seriously, no one needs to worry, we all have the ability to be creative and expressive inside of us. no one can stop that. not even the riaa. if you really want to destroy the riaa/mpaa, start making music, movies and art of your own! – by malfunkt |
chistopher(3:46pm est tue dec 21 2004) file swapping is not illegal. distibuting copyrighted material is. you've been brainwashed into thinking these are one in the same. learn to think for yourself! – by rko |
sameuel to wolfblade(3:50pm est tue dec 21 2004) talking down to me because yer an a**hole doesn't make me a kid…i'm 55 years old and if i were you i would look up the spelling or samuel before i ran anybody else's nic down…and as a side point…do you have to be a kid to play d&d????.yer still a dork!! – by wolfblade |
law my ass(3:56pm est tue dec 21 2004) i have the right to break any law i feel like breaking, and no one has any right to infringe upon my right to do so. so go f your self mr gates – by needledik |
never(3:56pm est tue dec 21 2004) i cant see them ever gettin fully rid of this kind of think, once one ends we move on. as soon as kazza end i went to winmx. their are always new ones being made. – by raul364 |
cool(3:58pm est tue dec 21 2004) me and needledik where like 2 secs between each other – by raul364 |
it works like this…(4:02pm est tue dec 21 2004) artists don't create art for the money. producers do. for example, the matrix: “in the last few years, business pulled our culture away from the idea that music is important and emotional and sacred. but new technology has brought a real opportunity for change we can break down the old system and give musicians real freedom and choice…. [p2p] really is going to be a global village where a billion people have access to one artist and a billion people can leave a tip if they want to…. people crowding the distribution pipe and trying to ignore fans and artists have no value.” – by diogenes |
it's a sad mean world(4:05pm est tue dec 21 2004) we live in when we look to courtney love for advice on what is sacred – by evilroo |
re rational thinker(4:11pm est tue dec 21 2004) we write a tune and play it at a gig people show up and we make scale we sell a couple of t shirts and a cd. i go home goto sleep get up goto my job make my money and pay my bills, eat, and life is good… its been that way for years.what musicians do you know. oh your talking about the ones that signed away any right to there music. most of us musicians have other jobs too.(survival skills 101) that way we can eat. the riaa and record conglomerates actualy stifle music… cant blame them they are business men not artists but in behaving in the manner in which they do they limit exposure to only bands that fit the formula. you gota be pretty play nice songs no swearing. sorry i play what i want, how i want and im fucking ugly. – by spore |
mpaa and riaa are not losing money(4:13pm est tue dec 21 2004) they get paid thru tv cable. $80 month, watching music channel. i wonder how many people are watching music channel? riaa makes money from mpaa if riaa music background played in movies. i dont know about internet radio or other streaming audio and video, to make money. but i do know that mx satelite radio they make money. they are still making money. i was told that riaa and mpaa stock or profit margin still steady for past 10 20 years. so oh well if they wanna stop p2p lots of people stop buying mpaa and riaa cd/dvd. – by stranger |
blame bush!!!(4:15pm est tue dec 21 2004) everything is pro-big business now. – by b u s h |
rotten apples(4:15pm est tue dec 21 2004) i only used bittorrent for free/open source downloads (e.g. openoffice.org .iso). legitimate use is being denied by this blanket ban. i see no easy way to avoid these scenarios. – by openvms4ever |
re: samueul(4:18pm est tue dec 21 2004) must have touched a nerve- dork. – by wd |
criminals(4:20pm est tue dec 21 2004) the true criminals are the riaa and the recording companies, and bill. has any one had a dvd player get poisoned? they did that, and they who impose domestic control freak imperialism such as this on the masses are the true criminals! artists of the world unite! – by needledik |
it's amazing…(4:24pm est tue dec 21 2004) how in china for example, you can download, sell, do whatever the hell u want with music and other copyrighted material, and nothing's done about it, and yet, u download a song here, and u got the supreme court in you ass – by b u s h |
huh?(4:25pm est tue dec 21 2004) do you think you could get a writer who knows what he's talking about? “the file swapping network bittorrent has lost most, if not all, of its hub connections.” ~ this is hardly the case. “file swapping will become what it was before the internet, a group of friends sharing discs.” ~ give me a break, to think that we would actually revert back to sneaker net. filesharing will never go away, it is already ingrained into the culture of a generation of teens and 20 somethings. there must be a flat tax for all media. – by kaleb |
re: samueul(4:25pm est tue dec 21 2004) none of you is should be: none of you are tard. your not an adult anyway. – by george w. |
f the little guy, too(4:30pm est tue dec 21 2004) don't try to justify the piracy of copyrighted materials on the grounds that some artists make huge amounts of money and live large off of it. for every artist on top of ice cream mountain, there are probably a hundred that got to be a one hit wonder and a thousand that never made it that far. those making big money are probably making it touring or other business deals. why? because the record labels screw the artists as hard as they can. part of the money they make goes to find and promote new artists. part of it goes to pay secretaries, janitors and it guys. part of it goes to stockholders. and yes, part of it goes to the lucky few executives that make huge salaries, and the lawyers of the riaa. so every single time i download a song, or burn a pirate copy of a cd, i screw a few rich people and a whole lot of little people who are just working joes like myself. it's wrong, but i do it anyway because i want free stuff. – by music pirate |
george w(4:31pm est tue dec 21 2004) tard. you're not an adult anyway. – by evilroo |
suckers(4:43pm est tue dec 21 2004) geeze, you are such total suckers for p2p propaganda. these are people who have deliberately set up their businesses so *you* get sued while they profit off your desire to get something for nothing. you claim to be disgusted by the entertainment-industry business model while you ignore the despicable business model of the p2ps. it's very simple: if you don't like the riaa and the mpaa, don't buy their products. but to blather about how much you hate what they produce while you steal it by the gigabyte makes you hypocrites as well as criminals. – by hatesthieves |
riaa and mpaa(4:52pm est tue dec 21 2004) get a life—boycott their products!! – by don't listen/watch |
re: samueul(4:53pm est tue dec 21 2004) george w – if that is the extent of your contribution mr. spellcheck, do us a favour and fade back into the shadows wallflower. btw, i believe the correct spelling of your lame nickname is: george w. Feeling myself free mp3 download. not: george w. lol, ironic that you would be using the term tard isn't it?!! wolfblade(lol) – your comment: “do you have to be a kid to play d&d???” enough said. thank you. good bye. it's obvious that i've struck a nerve with my comment of: “you want something for nothing and damn the consequences, end of story” the fact you resort to personal attacks only lends credence to my point. you know that i'm right, you don't like it, so you attack me in an attempt to waylay the conversation and steer it towards comfortable ground. lol. don't let me get in the way of your self-delusion. to hell with common sense right? lol. – by samueul |
assumptions(4:57pm est tue dec 21 2004) in case you haven't realised it yet, there are many people who make their own music, record it in their home studios, and make absolutely no money from it. we are not getting ripped off, and no litigation ever has to be involved. we make music for the love of the art, and as much as it would be nice to have millions of dollars, we're not going to stop making music just because it isn't profitable. long live p2p. – by spook |
not p2p but….(5:00pm est tue dec 21 2004) seems to me that all that is needed is some special interest sites where people can list their collections and what they would like to collect. you never know, some kind person may email them some encrypted mp3s and i guess they would be happy to return the favour to someone else. – by rrshols |
who do you think you're foolin'?(5:00pm est tue dec 21 2004) when did the idea of taking something you want for free because you can become the standard? why does everyone think that they're entitled to a free ride. if you want it, buy it and shut the hell up. if you want it for free, then work all week and then sign your paycheck and donate it for random deposit to other people's paypal accounts. if you think you should get what you want for nothing, giving up your income to strangers should be no problem for you, right? i think the riaa is all about paranoia, but it's obvious they have the right to be because the internet is full of deadbeats with a serious 'hooray for me and f**k you' attitude. get lives people, get lives. – by nobodyridesforfree |
oh boy…. fun(5:00pm est tue dec 21 2004) so many remarks i think this bit (no pun intended) of news has hit a mark. let me begin with this, breaking a law is a crime (you really need to be told this?). sure its your “right” to break a law, but remember, if you break a law and are caught you will pay the consequences. now don't think i am against file sharing. i share many of your feelings about the nature of the beast (the internet) as it stands now. i remember a few years ago you could find thousands of web sites with content you wanted. pictures, games, rpg, history, information, and on and on. almost all of it was free. now, if you can even find what it is you want to see your likely going to have to pay to download it or subscribe to the web site to see it. what have we become? i can lay blame in many different hands: ebay, amozan, aol, and even mmorpgs to a degree. but, i'm not going to do that here. most of the blame is on us. we are lazy, we do not remember the amount of power we have. license agreements??? we pay $50 for a program and we don't own it? boycott, class action lawsuit, or just buy another brand. nothing will change unless you do something to change it. th riaa and mpaa are doing something. – by think about that |
you should listen to what we say(5:01pm est tue dec 21 2004) in my country, canada, we can share anything. our government taxes and gives most of it to the queen of england. so they leave us alone. we don't like confrentation and never push an issue so the rest of the world ignores us. i enjoy sharing my alanis femme albums with others online. don't forget, i know we are a bunch of loud mouth pussies but we have made helpfull contributions to the world. the most important of which are maple syrup and zippers. ok ok so we tried to pussy out of world war ii and were practically threatened to and fight for the crown. but we mean well and beleve that are policies are perfect for other countries especially since on one really gives a shite about us. you silly americans. stop living in stupid world where you have a tv in every room, food galore, and showers on a daily basis. come on over to america junior oh i mean canada. – by canucky canuck |
btw(5:02pm est tue dec 21 2004) i will not post on or read this thread again, don't waste your time with name calling. – by think about that |
to samueul(5:05pm est tue dec 21 2004) f#%$ you i will do whatever i please i dont care what the consequences are because i am a kid i am immature guess what its the wave of the future so damn the music industry and damn the movie industry i could care less so f@#$ off this whole discussion was about the closing of some bit-torrent site not about your opinions on sharing illegal copyrighted material. so you can stay up at night worrying about those poor executives at the riaa and mpaa good thing theres a shit load of other ways to get illegal shit. suprnova rip – by barneyxp |
p2p will adapt(5:18pm est tue dec 21 2004) i'm working on a p2p project that will pick up where the 'nova left off. programmers will always adapt – by navagon |
re: its amazing /by bush(5:38pm est tue dec 21 2004) your wrong, your flawed opine and the general statement “anything”. try sharing anything *antichinese*, chances are you'll taste the shitty end of a billyclub! – by jtm from il. |
bit torrent down??(5:39pm est tue dec 21 2004) how are you going to shut torrents down. there's no centralized servers. i guess there are web pages to torrent links, but how are they going to shut them all down?? most of them seem to be hosted in europe anyway. i also just visited supernova.org – no signs of inactivity. however, they do charge for access – they should be shut down just for that – by brewerdude |
re: -think about that(5:39pm est tue dec 21 2004) like like this! “nothing will change unless you do something to change it. th riaa and mpaa are doing something” standing up and throwing rocks at each other while mpaa and riaa enjoying watching us instead of stading up towards mpaa and riaa. yes we are lazy and working our a$$ off at crapy job. but why not try discussing and agreeing with mpaa and riaa pricing or other deals with users to make user happy without trouble. – by stranger |
deal…(6:06pm est tue dec 21 2004) stop rappers from “rollin on dubs” and “showin off ice” and then i'll stop downloading music. does anyone know why they are pouring 1-2k bottles of champagne on skanks? apparently money is not an issue for anyone in the music industry except poor ol' metalica. that bently they roll around in is now 3 weeks old and who would want to be caught dead in that? me downloading your crappy music obviously has no affect on your pocket book so why are you bitching? – by khue |
it was inevitible(6:14pm est tue dec 21 2004) since recent studies have shown that the impact of downloading on cd sales is “statistically indistinguishable from zero”, the goal of quashing p2p isn't to increase sales, as the mpaa and riaa assert. one of the main reasons for the “witch hunt” against file sharing programs is to drum up support for the agencies themselves so they can justify their existence. i have seen this in other industries that have trade associations. another impact is, for less well-known music groups, that their exposure to the public will now be limited only to what the record companies provide, thus preventing these groups from becoming popular without the recording studios' help. from most serious articles and books i have read, few artists actually make any money from record sales unless they become super stars. studios subtract all expenses from the profits (including advertising) going to the artists, even while making a profit themselves by marking up the services for which they are charging the artist. most artists never see a cent. by outlawing the technology, they are ensuring their profits by denying us legitimate ways to share music or films that is not copyrighted. anime became popular as an art form in the usa because fan groups translated and distributed japanese animated films long before they were licensed to be shown in this country. as a result, almost all anime sold in the usa already has a fan base willing to buy the dvds for the more professional translation, the convenience of having the film on dvd, and the extras. with very few exceptions, bittorrent sites immediately removed links to series whose rights were purchased by domestic distributors. i have talked to people who say they would rather have no one listen to their performances than have them listen for free. such people must really have an inflated sense of ego to believe their performance is so superior that people will clamor to pay for it if it's unavailable any other way! as a final point, we have seen studies recently that show people will give up their own money to keep others from gaining profits they feel are undeserved, even when it does not impact themselves otherwise. obviously, the mpaa and riaa are doing just that. it's human nature. file sharing will continue, but must be low key, within an underground system that is only accessible by small groups, so that they do not come to the attention of outsiders. and in the end, not having unlimited access to every song and movie we want will force us to participate in other activities, not necessarily a bad thing. – by dave g |
re: barneyxp(6:19pm est tue dec 21 2004) you're right.you are a kid and you're statement surely defines you're immaturity level. samueul has made his point clear every time and the one's who argue and fight with it know it to be true. some of the best things in life are free…but music isn't one of them. – by surrounded by whinos |
re: surrounded by whinos(6:34pm est tue dec 21 2004) guess what i dont care im just here to stir up $hit its kinda fun. but in all honesty i do buy music every so often from my favorite bands i believe in supporting them. your right music isnt free im stealing it are you happy now. so you can live your happy life with a free concience while i live my life the way i want to im not saying your wrong im saying i dont give a f@$#. – by barneyxp |
khue(6:35pm est tue dec 21 2004) word…. you make great points. you would think that with all of that green that they would be able to afford laces for their shoes. and what is with the crooked hats? i will keep downloading until i see j-lo shopping at wal-mart. oh….and….btw… would some one remind eminem that he is white. yo.yo – by some mofo |
there will always be ways…(6:43pm est tue dec 21 2004) copying stuff didn't start when the internet arrived, and won't stop because torrent is gone. so here's what u do for music…u hear a song coming on the radio, hit the record button on your stereo, and presto, u just got the latest single. for the movies, u'll use the old fashioned, change theaters technique, or better yet, bring your own camcorder. so cheer up ppl – by be inventive |
yay!(6:52pm est tue dec 21 2004) hoooray! shut them down! – by well done! |
nobody has tried to outlaw p2ps(6:54pm est tue dec 21 2004) well put arguments, but they're all just silly. that “indistinguishable from zero” bit comes from one study that was based on less than 50,000 trades (that is, thefts) on opennap over eight weeks in 2002. it's nonsense. if you like studies, many more than just one have shown that p2p users buy less music, and most of those that found the opposite were based on self-reporting of behavior by the thieves. meanwhile, the outlawing of p2p technology has *never* been asked for or proposed in legislation. not once, not by the riaa or the mpaa or any congressman. in fact, the riaa and mpaa and lawmakers have repeatedly made statements about the obviously marvelous potential of the technology. the riaa and mpaa were thriving trade organizations before they began having to devote a huge amount of resources to fighting massive intellectual-property theft. to suggest that the anti-piracy campaigns are some sort of scam to stay in business reveals a startling ignorance of even the basics of how trade groups and the entertainment industry work. and the “nobody makes money from record sales” is a smokescreen and standard p2p propaganda. whether artists sign smart contracts or not is irrelevant to whether p2p infringement is stealing. and to use ill-informed ideas about how record contracts work to justify paying nothing at all is asinine. – by hatesthieves |
re: hatesthieves(7:03pm est tue dec 21 2004) nice cover….are you david hasselhof? i just downloaded one of your songs and programmed it into my dancing santa. i love you, man. – by todd |
they should have cut a deal with 'nova(7:08pm est tue dec 21 2004) the mpaa are just shooting themselves in the foot. they're copying the same actions that the riaa followed against napster and looked at what happened. if they had cut a deal with suprnova they might have saved themselves from suffering the same fate as the riaa but it's the same as napster move by move,step by step. fair enough people deserve money for their work but trying to make you pay 26 euro for a dvd ain't winning any support. by shutting down suprnova it'll be only a matter of time before somebody comes up with a p2p program that can't be affected by lawsuits or server shutdowns and when that happens they'll have no choice but to either cut a deal with the p2p networks or go the way of the dinosaur. – by infini |
hmmmm(7:08pm est tue dec 21 2004) so, it is illegal to download and watch a substandard quality video? how about something that was on tv and free to everyone? what about music you can't buy? like remixes, game music etc? what about porn? what about freeware programs? how can they be illegal? – by headley |
a general call to all p2p-users…(7:39pm est tue dec 21 2004) as of late the mpa's and riaa's of the world are claiming that we are robbing them of their rightly earned money and are trying to find ways to legally put and end to it. the scare tactics have been fruitful, it would seem as they keep getting settlements out of court and probably make a profit out of it. this campaign of theirs, of course, isn't to target and eradicate filesharing as much as an attempt to control the market and where our money goes. most of us feel that they should very well look into availability and affordable prices instead of claiming higher moral ground. the wealthiest nowadays decide what we shall listen to and watch, using staggering pr campaigns, and most releases are “format” productions, where talent and creativity comes second only to business concept and money. ironically, dramatic theatres, opera houses and so on are desperately trying to find an audience among the “common” people, as it's seemed like high-brow, and here we are dealing with a situation where the production companies are working towards a dangerous inaccessibility for regular joes. it is a natural thing that we want to be able to watch the movies and listen to the music, it has always been and always will be. hence we turn to filesharing, and/or borrow cd's from our friends and so on. availability and affordable prices. how many of you have bought a cd, watched a movie that has turned out to be less than satisfactory? how many has felt cheated of a night out at the movies, going there following posters and trailers for a big box-office release that turned out to be one of those “let's save the movie company a few bucks by fooling people into watching this dud during the first weekend”? how many get sick to their stomachs hearing about revenue losses and then be treated to a “cribs” episode on mtv? the production companies has the audacity to say that we are using people's creativity and talent, without paying for it. well – guess what – most p2p'ers actually do buy the products they like. we continue to see fantasy figures of what kind of revenues the production companies would have had, weren't it that the products were obtainable online. it's complete and utter nonsense, of course, as they seem to be oblivious to the highly human trait that they sport themselves, are shared by everybody: the power of owning. everybody wants to own things. having a pirated copy never exchanges the glory of a movie theatre or having a box bought and paid for, that prides your bookshelves. and to prove this, a general call out to all that has shared a file, downloaded something from online or think that the prices are outrageous in general, let's send a message to the powers that be. *********************************** *********************************** * the last week in april – 24th, 2005 up until and including 30th – let's show how much money we are spending on them in reality already by denying them it. don't go to the movies, don't buy any entertainment products during that week. *********************************** *********************************** * this is not to be confused as “go pirate everything you can find as the production companies are common robbers” but as a way to show that we are indeed supporting them already, so stop fighting us! spread the word everywhere you can think of. – by p2p united |
p2p united(7:47pm est tue dec 21 2004) lol! you actually believe that most file sharers buy much of anything! i hope your boycot takes off as it will prove you wrong! – by cd |
advertisements(7:59pm est tue dec 21 2004) i purchased spider-man a few weeks ago and to my dimay….verison has a commercial put right in the middle of all the movie advertisements. every kid movie i have purchased….commercials in the first 10 minutes….buy a dvd and look there more advertisements. now they want to make it illegal for me to make a commercial free copy of this purchased video. how much longer before they put advertisements onto music cds… we are paying for something that they are flooding with advertisements. who is taking who to the bank???? – by ticked-off |
the post starting with(8:14pm est tue dec 21 2004) sameuel to wolfblade (3:50pm est tue dec 21 2004) and forward were not from me, the original samueul. oh well, i guess when people start posting as you, it's time to move on……. last post…… it's been fun…. – by samueul |
ooops(8:17pm est tue dec 21 2004) the post starting with re: samueul's comment to wd (3:41pm est tue dec 21 2004) was not mine either…. last post…really…. – by samueul |
'rational' thinker?(8:26pm est tue dec 21 2004) used to be musicians had to actually perform their music to earn their way in this world. carpenters can't just build one step then magically have an entire staircase come into existence so they can earn royalties every time someone lands a foot on each 'copy' as they ascend… as far as i'm concerned (as a musician / songwriter) i have no right to expect to 'contribute' to 'culture' by working once then reaping the rewards of that work for all perpetuity without ever lifting a finger again. damn edison and his wax cyclinders! i'm pretty sure throughout all previous human history musicians had to 'sing for their supper' – not 'sing once then copy it over and over to pay for all your suppers until you die and never have to work again.' i guess you could argue sheet music comes close, but the buyer must have sufficient talent to reproduce the tune unless you can manage to bring mozart back from the dead to perform it for you… in which case, patent that technology and then even your children and your children's children can be rich forever!!!! muhahahahaha i'm just saying that the idea that a good idea should mean never having to work again may be in and of itself, a very bad idea. – by just sayin' |
simple(8:30pm est tue dec 21 2004) you can download all you want…. i will be in the benjamin's forever. ps- i am ready to have a child. anyone else? – by pimp juice |
what a crock(8:37pm est tue dec 21 2004) this thread alone points out the validity of p2p on several fronts. sure there are legal uses of p2p, many commercial games use bittorrent these days to ease bandwidth. suprnova contained many valid torrents to demos and trailers. and people can go around and around arguing about the validity of p2p. this thread alone shows that just because p2p is easliy accessable and available, does not mean the vast majority is going to use it. not even close. furthermore, just because a person dls a game through p2p does not mean they would have bought that game. same with music and movies – it isn't revenue lost – it was never revenue to begin with. the original poster of this article is a blithering idiot if they think p2p is dead. worst case scenario is that p2p is driven underground, where it gains strength and momentum, and rises from the ashes 5 years from now (because the community simply grows too massive to remain underground). among the worst aguments against p2p is sharing console games. dood, if you can get your xbox or ps2 to play an iso, more friggin power to you. its not an easy task for the layman and the vast majority of people simply won't bother. the mpaa has a bad history of bloating facts. they indicated that 3 out of 4 people download movies. yeah, my mom watched an “extended video” stream from “the apprentice” website. according to the mpaa, that counts as a movie download. even those funny little video clips count as a “movie”, because of the way the mpaa asks the question for purposes of their survey. – by irritable |
worst example…(8:43pm est tue dec 21 2004) jennifer lopez had a hit single and a concert on hbo, without ever having performed in front of a live audience. i'm sorry, but that's just wrong and you'll never convince me otherwise. could this have happened before the advent of recording technology and the industry distribution machine? no – and you know what? we'd all be better off for it. i say if you want to support 'culture' go see a live local band and if you enjoy the show, buy their cd, from them, at the venue. artist makes a living, they get to preserve their diginity and creative integrity, i feel zero guilt and don't have to support some stupid middleman who adds nothing to the process. now how hard was that? – by still just sayin' |
hello?(9:27pm est tue dec 21 2004) here's a technology lesson for some: a. bittorrent is a protocol, nothing more. b. these sites weren't offering illegal content, they were offering 'footprints' to 'some' illegal content. since when is offering a link illegal? apparently, only in america. ———————————– – what's obvious here is that corporate america is using the courts to hollow our rights, and they're getting away with it. a. they've manipulated and blanketed over 45 pieces of legislation in congress that strengthen their rights at the expense of yours. b. they're in active negotiation with semiconductor manufacturers globally (intel is fighting this) to include active file sharing 'prohibitory' measures in computer components. i.e. stopping us from sharing by 'bugging' our computers. my question to you, america… what are you going to do about it? – by focus |
sameuel(9:29pm est tue dec 21 2004) both of those posts u mentioned that weren't yours were posted by wolfblade…see it there at the bottom where it says by…wolfblade ???? maybe that is why u spent all your time in here insulting everybody else starting with wd…maybe if you sound out the words out loud???? – by wolfblade |
damn…(9:41pm est tue dec 21 2004) i didn't even get to try it yet *cries* – by n1r3n |
focus(10:24pm est tue dec 21 2004) i think you are out of focus. rights? we are talking about stealing entertainment here, not food. if people didn't abuse file sharing so much it wouldn't be a problem. as it is, filesharing is a crime ridden ghetto on the internet. – by in focus |
can you read?(10:28pm est tue dec 21 2004) apparently not. “a. they've manipulated and blanketed over 45 pieces of legislation in congress that strengthen their rights at the expense of yours. b. they're in active negotiation with semiconductor manufacturers globally (intel is fighting this) to include active file sharing 'prohibitory' measures in computer components.” focus made a good point. what we're talking about here is the alienation of our rights. generally. they've successfully shut down sites that offered “footprints” to illegal content on other sites. sad. – by sociallambs |
re: focus(10:30pm est tue dec 21 2004) you want to know what the american people are going to do about it? not a damn thing. – by rgboy |
sociallambs(10:36pm est tue dec 21 2004) and none of that would have happened if filesharers had not turned it into a crime ridden ghetto. i have no sympathy. i agree it sucks, but hey, if you push and get pushed back harder…you shouldn't have pushed. focus made a good point? here is the point: abuse your “rights” and you will lose them. didn't you learn anything in school? we aren't talking about essential human rights here anyway. this is new ground and it is far from essential human rights. – by in focus |
re: in focus(10:47pm est tue dec 21 2004) 'rights' are necessarily determined by the people of a democracy. extrapolate that a little bit. how is it that the people of a democracy are being punished by their government? government conforms to the will of the people, remember? what you're suggesting is that the american populace (this isn't a small group of dissidents) bow to this will of its government. and stop insulting my fanbase, you communist prick. – by focus |
focus(10:57pm est tue dec 21 2004) i am no communist…filesharing would be a bit closer to that my friend. i am suggesting that a subset of the populace (online criminals) are spoiling it for the rest of us. the government isn't punishing anybody, the people want this mess cleaned up. the government represents the people. now it happens that some big corporate machines will benefit from it, but you need to lay the blame where it should be. you guys need to stop acting like you are speaking for everybody, you aren't. let me know when your essential rights are being stripped by this. in the mean time, illegal file sharers caused this and are to blame. you are right, it isn't a small group if dissidents, it is a large group of dissidents, but that does not make it right, that only makes it popular which means nothing, crack is popular too. – by in focus |
stupid(11:02pm est tue dec 21 2004) blizzard uses bt for downloading patches – by xyz |
xyz(11:05pm est tue dec 21 2004) omg! not that! not blizzard! lol! big deal. – by in focus |
hmmmm(11:13pm est tue dec 21 2004) also, i think music sales would increase alot if: a) prices went down by at least 30% b) the artist was given more than 50 cents per cd sale (at least 5 dollars) c) they took that stupid anti copying crap off the cd so it could play on all music cd players. i use p2p programs, and i buy music. – by headley |
in focus(11:18pm est tue dec 21 2004) your post had credibility until you suggested file sharers are the minority. do you have an iota of proof? i'd love to see it. of course, if the majority of american's support file sharing it should be immediately legalized. that wouldn't bode well for the u.s. government, or your argument. such is the power of a “large group of dissidents.” then again, american history has been about nothing but a “large group of dissidents.” seriously, you have communist tilt that's fairly disturbing. ———————- as for violation of my rights… how about the doj: freedom of information act (foia)? say i downloaded an 'illegal' ebook on mysql? did i just break the law? let me save you the post: no. – by focus |
hahahaha(1:56am est wed dec 22 2004) it's a joke really. file sharing cannot be stopped any more than the sun can be kept from rising. of course it might slow down the masses. the fact is, there are just too many hubs out there that aren't widely known….inviation only. this won't affect me one bit. – by keep da warez phree |
you made me laugh(2:01am est wed dec 22 2004) “the government represents the people.” … … ? since when? i stopped caring about your post as soon as i read this. in focus, you need to take a good look at the government and then try to say that again. as to file sharring, you cannot stop it. doing so would be like banning alcohol, it only makes it go underground. this has, by the way, done minimal dammage to bittorent, you just get the files from a country that doesn't care(i 3 sweden). looking for your fix, piratebay.org awaits. – by shades |
what is legal ???(2:57am est wed dec 22 2004) is the sharing of tv-rips legal ??? if not. lets have a server for that. then, we (who live in the boring norway) can use our tv's for something -) – by i want tv-rips |
who cares they will just move the servers(5:26am est wed dec 22 2004) this dosent really matter the mpiaa has just picked the low hanging frute where their loyers can get at it the servers will move to russia or china the only differance is that we will haft to put up with the porn banners! – by hamish |
focus(8:13am est wed dec 22 2004) “of course, if the majority of american's support file sharing it should be immediately legalized. that wouldn't bode well for the u.s. government, or your argument.” what planet do you live on? popularity is not the measure of right and wrong! i never said file sharing should be illegal you friggin moron. how can it be legalized? it is already legal sparky! it is illegal file sharing that is the problem and is the cause of all of this. you really are an idiot aren't you? legalize it? what a laugh when it's already legal. stop illegal filesharing and they will leave it alone, until then it will be a constant battle that you will continuously lose. – by in focus |
dig(8:49am est wed dec 22 2004) go undergr0u||d. itap0strofees all 0yout there. *wink* – by free stuff |
free stuff(9:02am est wed dec 22 2004) wow, can you speak pig latin too? lol – by in focus |
re: in focus(9:23am est wed dec 22 2004) what's so fascinating about this is, well…i was just starting to have the same feelings about you. then you opened your mouth. we aren't debating the merits of right vs. wrong, we're debating the legitimacy of our democracy. leave morality out of it, dolt! i swear to god, you're the most malleable defeatist i've ever spoken to. did you get this attitude in grade school? maybe they really are breeding a generation of mediocrity… besides, who is the us government to decide what's moral? abortion, anyone? – by focus |
re: in focus(9:25am est wed dec 22 2004) “what planet do you live on? popularity is not the measure of right and wrong!” in a democracy, you are exactly wrong. – by sociallamb |
re sociallamb(9:26am est wed dec 22 2004) exactly. – by focus |
file sharing(11:24am est wed dec 22 2004) awwwwwwwww you poor file swappers. can't get what you want for free anymore can you ,boo frickin hoo,get a fricking job and pay for what you want. don't steal. corporations work hard to get products to you they work hard to get the copyrights and the patents,all you have to do is make the purchases,the consumer has it easy. one big happy shout to the riaa and mpaa for taking a stand in cracking down on pirates who steal music and software. be a good guy don't steal,don't pirate,pay your taxes like good little consumers and play nice. – by pack10 |
i used bittorrent but never to dl music,(11:50am est wed dec 22 2004) but to dl apps from source forge. i wonder why they don't sue microsoft for damages if a virus is transmitted from a ms os? or written on a ms os? they need to make the fines smaller so that these things can be worked out in court. most of the riaa, mpaa suits would be easily dismissed, but since the offer no penalty settlements, the defendants simply accept. this is a tactic often used by microsoft in license disputes, because ms is afraid to have their eula be tested in court. – by tech |
out of control: the sequel(12:30pm est wed dec 22 2004) this morning i woke up to find that the torrent had died. someone – no one knows who – had put enough pressure onto the operators of suprnova.org and torrentbits.com to shut them down. suprnova.org was amazing, the wal-mart of torrents, a great big marketplace of piracy, all neatly dished up and aiming to please. you want this new hollywood release? here's a recording from someone who smuggled a camcorder into a screening. – how about the latest episode of that hit hbo series? there you go, and no subscription fees to pay. just fire up your favorite bittorrent client – bittornado, azureus, tomato, or that good old-fashioned bram cohen code. click on the torrent, and you're up and downloading, sharing what you're getting with hundreds of others. share and share alike. what could be more friendly? for those of you who found the last paragraph littered with weird gobblygook, here's your opportunity to come up to speed: bittorrent is a computer protocol (a language computers use when communicating with each other) which allows computers to freely and efficiently share information with one another. this free-for-all of sharing is often called peer-to-peer or p2p, and it has become one of the most popular activities on the internet. many of you have heard how the record companies are deathly afraid that their markets are about to evaporate as their customers move from buying cds to downloading pirated music. this much is true: for the last several years, peer-to-peer software has been used to help people find audio files on the internet – files being offered up by other people for you to download, anonymously. find a song, click on it, and down it comes to your computer's hard drive. all of this song swapping began before most americans had access to high-speed “broadband” internet connections. but, as of a month ago, just about half of the home users in the usa access the internet through a broadband connection. these connections are anywhere from 10 and 50 times faster than the earlier “dial-up” connections which tied up phone lines and kept you waiting for what seemed like weeks as you struggled to download the latest gossip from your favorite website. while it takes some time to download music over a dial-up connection, you'd only wait about ten minutes for an average song. movies and tv shows, which are much “richer” (more data), take a lot more time to download. the new u2 album, for example, might contain 45 million bytes of data. but an episode of “six feet under” – roughly the same length – would probably run to 450 million bytes of information, ten times the amount. coincidentally, that's how much faster internet connections are, compared to a few years ago. this increase in bandwidth has led to an enormous underground trade in all sorts of audiovisual media. it's not just current movies – classics and cult films are available. (i downloaded russ meyer's beyond the valley of the dolls the day he died, watching it that evening, my homage to the great schlock director.) and, more significantly, nearly every new tv show that airs in the us or the uk is almost instantaneously available globally, because someone watching that show is recording it to their hard disk, publishing the recording to the internet. this isn't rocket science: computer peripherals which convert tv signals to digital data cost less than $100, and millions of them are out there already. if you're just one person with one recording of one show, and it's a popular show, your computer's internet connection is going to get swamped with requests for the show eventually your computer will crash or you'll take the show off the internet, just so you can read your email. and in the early days of peer-to-peer, that's how it was. someone would find a computer with a copy of the song they wanted to listen to, connect to that computer, and download the data. it worked, but anything that got very popular was likely to disappear almost immediately. popularity was a problem in first-generation peer-to-peer networks. in november 2002, an unemployed programmer named bram cohen decided there had to be a better way, so he spent a few weeks writing an improved version of the protocols used to create peer-to-peer networks, and came up with bittorrent. bittorrent is a radical advance over the peer-to-peer systems which preceded it. cohen realized that popularity is a good thing, and designed bittorrent to take advantage of it. when a file (movie, music, computer program, it's all just bits) is published on bittorrent, everyone who wants the file is required to share what they have with everyone else. as you're downloading the file, those parts you've already downloaded are available to other people looking to download the file. this means that you're not just “leeching” the file, taking without giving back you're also sharing the file with anyone else who wants it. as more pe – by mark pesce |
out of control: the sequel (cont'd.)(12:32pm est wed dec 22 2004) as more people download the file, they offer up what they've downloaded, and so on. as this process rolls on, there are always more and more computers to download the file from. if a file gets very popular, you might be getting bits of it from hundreds of different computers, all over the internet – simultaneously. this is a very important point, because it means that as bittorrent files grow in popularity, they become progressively faster to download. popularity isn't a scourge in bittorrent – it's a blessing. it's such a blessing that, as of november, 35% of all traffic on the internet was bittorrent-related. unfortunately, that blessing looks more like a curse if you're the head of a hollywood studio, trying to fill seats in megaplexes or move millions of units of your latest dvds releases. and, although bittorrent is efficient, it isn't designed to make data piracy easy bittorrent relies on a lot of information which can be used to trace the location of every single user downloading a file, and, more significantly, it also relies on a centralized “tracker” – a computer program which registers the requests for the file, and tells a requester how to hook up to the tens or hundreds of other computers offering pieces of the file for download. as any good network engineer knows (and i was a network engineer for over a decade), a single point of failure (a single computer offering a single torrent tracker) is a bad thing to have in a network. it's the one shortcoming in cohen's design for bittorrent: kill the tracker and you've killed the torrent. but network engineers know better than to design systems with single points of failure: that's one of the reasons the internet is still around, despite the best efforts of hackers around the world to kill it. failure in any one part of the internet is expected and dealt with in short order. various parts of the internet fail all the time and you only very rarely notice. back to today, when the hammer came down. suprnova.org and torrentbits.com each played host to thousands of bittorrent trackers. when these sites went down the torrents went poof!, as if they'd never existed. this evening the members of the mpaa must be feeling quite satisfied with themselves – they see this danger as passed never again will bittorrent threaten the revenues of the hollywood studios. nothing could be further from the truth. as hollywood is so fond of sequels, it seems perfectly fitting that today's suppression of the leading bittorrent sites bears an uncanny resemblance to an event which took place in july of 2000. facing a rising sea of lawsuits and numerous court orders demanding an immediate shutdown, the archetypal peer-to-peer service, napster, pulled the plug on its own servers, silencing the millions of users who used the service as a central exchange to locate songs to download. that should have been the end of that. but it wasn't. instead, the number of songs traded on the internet today dwarfs the number traded in napster's heyday. the suppression of napster led to a profusion of alternatives – gnutella, kazaa, and bittorrent. gnutella is a particularly telling example of how the suppression of a seductive technology (and peer-to-peer file trading is very seductive – ask anyone who's done it) only results in an improved technology taking its place. instead of relying on a centralized server – a fault that both napster and bittorrent share – gnutella uses a process of discovery to let peers share information with each other about what's available where. the peers in a gnutella peer-to-peer network self-organize into an occasionally unreliable but undeniably expansive network of content. because of its distributed nature, shutting down any one gnutella peer has only a very limited effect on the overall network. one individual's collection of music might evaporate, but there are still tens of thousands of others to pick from. this network of gnutella peers (and its offspring, such as kazaa, bearshare, and acquisition) has been growing since its introduction in 2001, mostly invisibly, but ever more pervasively. if napster hadn't been run out of business by the riaa, it's unlikely that any need for gnutella would have arisen if the riaa hadn't attacked that single point of failure, there'd have been no need to develop a solution which, by design, has no single point to failure. it's as though both sides in the war over piracy and file sharing are engaged in an evolutionary struggle: every time one side comes up with a new strategy, the other side evolves a response to it. this isn't just a cat-and-mouse game each attack by the riaa, generates a response of increasing sophistication. and, today, the mpaa has blundered into this arms race. this was, as will soon be seen, a very bad idea. pointing up the single greatest weakness of bittorrent take down the tracker and the torrent dies – has – by mark pesce |
out of control: the sequel (cont'd.) (12:33pm est wed dec 22 2004) has only served to energize, inspire and mobilize the resources of an entire global ecology of software developers, network engineers and hackers-at-large who want nothing so much, at this moment, as to make the mpaa pay for their insolence. imagine a parent reaching into a child's room and ripping a tv set out of the wall while the child is watching it. that child would feel anger and begin plotting his revenge. and that scene has been multiplied at least hundred thousand times today, all around the world. it is quite likely that, as i type these words, somewhere in the world a roomful of college cs students, fueled by coke and pizza and righteous indignation, are banging out some code which will fix the inherent weakness of bittorrent – removing the need for a single tracker. if they're smart enough, they'll work out a system of dynamic trackers, which could quickly pass control back and forth among a cloud of peers, so that no one peer holds the hot potato long enough to be noticed. they'll take the best of gnutella and cross-breed it with the best of bittorrent. and that will be the mpaa's worst nightmare. hey, hollywood! can you feel the future slipping through your fingers? do you understand how badly you've screwed up? you took a perfectly serviceable situation – a nice, centralized system for the distribution of media, and, through your own greed and shortsightedness, are giving birth to a system of digital distribution that you'll never, ever be able to defeat. in your avarice and arrogance you ignored the obvious: you should have cut a deal with suprnova.org. in partnership you could have found a way to manage the disruptive change that's already well underway. instead, you have repeated the mistakes made by the recording industry, chapter and verse. and thus you have spelled your own doom. it's said that the best sequels are just like the original, only bigger and louder. ladies and gentlemen, prepare yourselves for one hell of a crash. this baby is now fully out of control. mark pesce sydney/hobart 20 december 2004 released under the creative commons attribution license 2.0 – by mark pesce |
mark pesce(12:44pm est wed dec 22 2004) great post!!! – by tattooed grandma |
mark pesce(1:37pm est wed dec 22 2004) you're exactly right. my universities entire cs department is in an uproar… you wouldn't believe how pissed some of the guys are in my c class. it's amazing… the mpaa just sealed the entertainment industries fate. how stupid for an american association to try and limit a practice enjoyed in every country on the planet. i just don't understand their thinking…were they thinking? “hey fellas, lets repeat the napster fiasco and decentralize bt!” one things for sure, it's time to get a – by 100/1000ethernetcard |
bye,bye riaa/mpaa!!!(1:54pm est wed dec 22 2004) it's the same all over again. just wait 3 months and bt will be back with a vengence. they're dying a slllloooooowww, loooonnnggg death…. – by infini |
bt suck. bt slow.(5:15pm est wed dec 22 2004) bt 5 kb/s. ati.com 200kb/s – by ah |
ppl are such thugs(5:40pm est wed dec 22 2004) ppl stop file swaping mp3's. its illegal. when you buy the cd you own the cd object not the contents. copying from a cd to harddrive or making mp3's is illegal. if your cd's get ruined its your fault for not taking care of them. who the f&%ck gives you the right setting guidelines on how hollywood should distribute their movies or music or pricing of the product. if they want to make tons of money let them do it. its their right. let them get greedy. – by bla |
ppl are such thugs(5:41pm est wed dec 22 2004) ppl stop file swaping mp3's. its illegal. when you buy the cd you own the cd object not the contents. copying from a cd to harddrive or making mp3's is illegal. if your cd's get ruined its your fault for not taking care of them. who the f&%ck gives you the right setting guidelines for hollywood on how they should distribute their movies or music or pricing of the product. if they want to make tons of money let them do it. its their right. let them get greedy. – by bla |
bla(5:49pm est wed dec 22 2004) lmao….double posting n00b. “let them be greedy” how bout a nice can of k.m.a.! i have every right to back up my cd's in the form of mp3! why should i have to go out and purchase a new cd when i already own the damn cassette. all the classics are coming back on dvd with one extra song….big whoop! file sharing, music downloading, pirating in general will never be stopped. as long as there is copy protection, there will be someone trying to hack it. if for nothing more than just bragging rights. – by get over it already! |
irc diz .torrent(7:48pm est wed dec 22 2004) irc channels distribute .torrent files….and keeping a list of files on other systems that are available isnt illegal… there is no abedding in file sharing, just civil liability…. – by – blakhalf |
last post(7:48pm est wed dec 22 2004) ,snippit of last post,file sharing, music downloading, pirating in general will never be stopped. as long as there is copy protection, there will be someone trying to hack it. as long as there are pirates hacking encryption and circumventing protection file swappers swapping, people writing new file sharing programs to evade the governemt and authorities, the courts will continue to issue suppeonas and kick in the doors of your homes and confiscate your computers. play nice get a job and purchase what you want with a credit card or just pay cash ,don't steal – by locale |
peers(3:21am est thu dec 23 2004) dear chilrens, we are all peers. set up your web servers (iis) and let your friends surf to your inetpubs by ip addys over tcp-ip or use ftp. who needs the p2p peeps when were already all peers? duh. – by yeababay |
what's the matter with these companies(6:10am est thu dec 23 2004) don't they understand that the internet means we don't have to respect copyright or intellectual property rights anymore? it is perfectly ok to steal any and everything you can exchange on the internet because it is a) so easy, and b) everyone is doing it!! that makes it ok, everyone knows that. when will these nazi facist corporate bastards get this through their thick skulls? – by iamathiefsowhat |
re: bla(11:06am est thu dec 23 2004) you are allowed to copy music cd to mp3 and store your cd in safe place. as long you don't distribute to anyone else and keep your mouth shut!!! so you make back-ups on your computer just incase your harddrive fails. so i make back-ups on my cds just incase it fail to read. back-ups is allowed as long you have the original copy. – by stranger |
mpaa and riaa stupid rules(11:32am est thu dec 23 2004) mpaa and riaa don't want people to share music or moive, example:mommy gets ac/dc cd but daddy have to buy one too, and each cd for 3 kids. wow 5 cd for $25 ea thats $125. mommy plays ac/dc in the living room but daddy and 3 kids cannot, because mommy is not allowed to share music. you know, the blank cd cost almost $0.5cents to mpaa and riaa and $.50cents for ware and tear on recording device, $.25cents for person to make the cd, $.25cents to paint the cd, $1 goes to the band, $1.95 goes to mpaa/riaa to sign the paperwork, $.25cents packing machine, $.25cents to ship it, $.50cents to the store. thats $5 but $15 profit goes to mpaa/riaa. close enuff on how they make money. i may be wrong. – by stranger |
mercora.net(7:23pm est thu dec 23 2004) the future ? – by mikehammer |
Immature Greatest Hits Download Torrent Sites
legal(11:08am est sat dec 25 2004) how about the legal material that was being shared by bt? such as tv episodes? is it illegal to share something that is already broadcasted for free on tv? – by john |
solution(11:17am est sat dec 25 2004) group a. – go buy cd's and dvd's group b. – download cd's and dvd's everyone stay in ur groups and dont get in each others way… – by solution |
legality and morals(3:07pm est mon dec 27 2004) the issue here, really, is not that sharing illegal files is wrong or not. the issue is that the laws are attacking entities that assist in illegal file sharing, but are not in and of themselves illegal. it's like making boats illegal because people use them to run drugs. – by judicator |
boats(6:10pm est wed dec 29 2004) some boats are illegal in miamai dade county in florida. try going out on a craft with 2 outboard motors on it just for a simple 30 mph cruise—the coast guard is stopping everyone out there that has 2 motors cause criminals use them to smuggle drugs–thus its illegal to use 2 motors on a boat and your automatially suspect if you do use 2 motors…. – by soapbox |
can't there be a solution?(11:27am est tue jan 04 2005) the companies say they are trying to protect the artist, right? can't there be a solution? i personally would like to see some sort of “i'm keeping it, so here's your money” system. here's how it could work: you download something copyrighted. you have a certain amount of time for “evaluation” purposes. if you don't like it, erase it – if you like it, send a certain amount of money directly to the artist (or the big-assed company that owns the artist)! hell, you wouldn't even have to set up a special website for it – you could paypal it & then you would have a transaction record to show for it! then you could legally own the “right” to have it on your hard drive. i know the riaa/mpaa would never go for this without their own cut, but perhaps the numbers could be worked so that all sides could be happy – wow, what a concept! lower overhead for the big companies (they have fewer packages to make), more of a cut for the musician (hopefully) & less money for the consumer to shell out. if you can kill the reason for this persecution, then p2p can finally become the “world info database” that it should be! (i know i'm living in a fantasy, but they know me here & i'm comfortable.) – by i'm smeagol, dammit! |
trade legal music!(11:41pm est wed jan 05 2005) there are sites that only have torrents from trade-friendly bands. try for good legal tunes also the internet archive has a bunch of trade friendly bands for download. i d/led a particle show and ended up buying launchpad(a fantastic album by the way). i would have never made that purchase without bit torrent or file sharing. – by id10t |
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all rubbish(7:36am est fri jan 14 2005) anyone who believes file sharing is dead is insane. just download a copy of shareaza and away you go. program is gnu and no servers required so lets see them stop it…. – by niberous |
your dead wrong(11:37am est tue jul 11 2006) sorry to brust your bubble, but file sharing isnt close to dead…you can still find great databases of bitorrent, irc's, limewire still running strong . tons of files to share my friends – by mike |